Posted by: 2big4mysize | December 9, 2007

Hey TippyToes Care to explain your statements?

While I can forgive Tippy Toes  for her part in being an admin on kimkins.com I can’t forgive her for continuing to spread a false rumor that Kimkins is a safe eating plan  

This is from her Blog today 

For the rest reading this I just wanted to make one thing clear. I do not believe the Kimkins diet is harmful if medically supervised and with proper supplements and calories over 800 (more is better). I am sorry if this is offensive but I just cannot lie about it. I have lost over 68 lbs on Kimkins in cycle rounds. What is wrong with Kimkins, in my opinion, is pushing the plan behind the plan, cutting calories lower and lower… This I do believe is extremely dangerous and I would never advise such.My problem with Kimkins is not the diet.

Lets examine the posted rules for Kimkins.com

As much lean protein as desired from the Kimkins Food List
0-20 total carbs per day(no fiber or sugar alcohol subtraction)
0-3 cups List 1 veggies per day OR
0-2 cups List 1 veggies + 0-1 cup List 2 veggies per day
Use minimal fat to make your menu work (careful, calories count!)
No alcohol or low carb products (sugar free candy, energy bars, ice cream, frozen meals)
Your appetite will reduce naturally after 3-5 days
Take a complete multivitamin each day plus other desired supplements.

Okay here is my daily menu following those rules.

Breakfast
1 whole egg mixed with 2 egg whites per the rules
extra lean ham 4 oz
cooked in a pat of butter
and diet coke since caffeine is legal on Kimkins
 

Lunch
1/2 recipe KIMKINS Buffalo chicken
1.5 cup of salad veggies
low cal low fat Italian dressing

Dinner
 4 oz cod broiled with 1 T tartar sauce low cal
1 cup Brussel sprouts roasted

 According to fitday 

Average Calories

  grams cals %total
Total:   920   
Fat: 21  187  21%
  Sat: 61  7%
  Poly: 42  5%
  Mono: 53  6%
Carbs: 18  50  6%
  Fiber: 0%
Protein: 158  633  73%
Alcohol: 0%

I have 5 total grams of polyunsaturated fatwhich is the type of fats the EFAs are but they only make up a fraction of the total polys in the food. My only food sources are the butter, egg yolks and fat from the chicken and cod. Using Controlledcarb’s amounts in 100grams of each food (She has a real PhD in Nutrition in case anybody doesn’t know) posted in http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/9091145-post236.html I’m not even close to the  daily recommendation for Women

Omega 6, absolute minimum for women (depends on age) 11g to 12g
Omega 3 absolute minimum for women 1.1g

Above and beyond absolute minimum gram intake in a calorie adequate diet n-6 should provide 5-10% of energy; n-3 should provide 0.6-1.2% of energy.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/9087877-post185.html  Even if all the polys in those foods were the required omega 3 and 6 I’m still 7.1-8.1 grams of polys below the required daily minimum.
more on EFA’s can be found here. apinchofhealth.com

Still think Kimkins at 800+  cals is healthy Tippy? I got over 900 in my sample menu

oh yes you did add that line about proper supplements so to get my EFAs I’d need to swallow  a handful of Omega 6 capsules and several Omega 3s also. Since the supplement companies assume we are getting too much 6 in our diet their isn’t an Omega 6 nor Omega 3-6 out there with large amounts of 6.

And that just addresses the EFAs of course those supplements you mentioned adding to the plan will also need to cover the missing calcium and vitamins along with potassium and other electrolytes missing from the allowed foods until the person reaches goal weight,so I can see why you qualify your safety to say IF MEDICALLY SUPERVISED since the kimkineete now has to go in for blood work every couple of weeks to adjust those supplements. That is if you can find a doctor who is willing to medically supervise a patient following that nutritionally bankrupt plan.

And I didn’t even go into the negative effects of high protein eating on T3 for hypothyroid folk  like yourself. But I’m sure you have discussed those effects as noted by Broda Barnes with your doctor who is supervising your Kimkins right Tippy Toes?

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Responses

  1. and let’s not even get into the lack of fat soluble vitamins (A,D,E,& K) from this way of eating…lack of A can cause blindness—-and let’s not even get into what the lack of Vitamin D can cause—everything from cancer, to heart disease, to hypertension, autism, mental illness—all from the lack of 1 fat soluble vitamin….

  2. Excellent post, 2Big. Thanks for spreading the word that Kimkins is a deadly diet.

  3. Great post. I never understood why 800 was the magic number for Tipsy, and she certainly doesn’t have anything to back it up with. Perhaps it is due to VLCD diets being defined as 800 or less?

  4. Thanks. I was hoping TT would come explain her statements. I have comment moderation on so this will not be a slam TT topic.

  5. […] Also visit https://2big4mysize.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/hey-tippytoes-care-to-explain-your-statements/  […]

  6. […] continues at 2big4mysize brought to you by diet.medtrials.info and […]

  7. […] Read the rest of this great post here […]

  8. Great information!! Wish TT would take responsiblity, along with kimmer. Kimkins.com

  9. Great Information!!

    Kimkins.com

  10. Tippy doesn’t do Kimkins, she does tippykins

  11. thanks for visiting and Shelley thanks for the great Kimkins informational site

  12. from TippyToes interview with Jimmy Moore tonight on livinlavidalocarb
    “I have shown the diet of original Kimkins to two doctors now and one prefers it to Atkins. The other gave me a list of supplements to buy and take and had no problems either. ”

    Seem TT has been holding out on a whole community of kimkineets about the unsafe eating plan known as Kimkins.com This doctor just looking at the plan gave her a whole list of supplements yet nowhere before tonight has TT publically informed any memebr of the kimpire about those needed supplements.

  13. Is TT giving Doctors Kimkins food list as written or the tweeked plan?

    Great lowcarb cooking ideas http://coffeytogo.blogspot.com/

  14. […] 2Big, went so far as th attempt to make a healthy menu following Kimkins, but with the no less than 800 calorie mantra. Can’t be done. Read about it on her blog. […]

  15. Shelly she said she gave the orginal diet to the doctor according to the Jimmy Moore interview. Want to bet if we ask that doc about quoting their endorsement of that eating plan with just those added supplements the no comment answer would be forth coming and then a denial of ever endorsing the plan when they saw how many calories 70-90 grams of protein 20 grams of carbs and only enough fat to make it work really is.

  16. You know, I really am sick of the fighting over diets. The bottom line is yes, the diet may lack Omegas but you can add them in with fish plus flax supplements. Atkins diet lacks fiber, whole grains and fruits. But the bottom line is, when you need to lose weight (talking 50lbs or more) what is worse? And here is a better menu since you insist. Is it perfect and balanced? No. Maybe weight watchers plans are but I can’t lose on those. But if you can then maybe you should. Here goes: Calories Eaten Today
    grams cals %total
    Total: 956
    Fat: 54 490 53%
    Sat: 15 136 15%
    Poly: 10 86 9%
    Mono: 23 210 23%
    Carbs: 16 49 5%
    Fiber: 3 0 0%
    Protein: 97 390 42%
    Alcohol: 0 0 0%

    Fat Carbs
    Protein Alcohol

    Today’s Foods
    Food Name Servings Serving Size Cals Fat Carb Prot

    Coffee, NS as to type fl ozcoffee cup (6 fl oz)mug (8 fl oz)Quantity not specified 5 0 1 0
    Cream, half and half cupfl ozindividual container (.5 fl oz)Guideline amount per fl oz of beverageQuantity not specified 39 3 1 1
    Egg, whole, raw cup (4.86 eggs)extra largejumbolargemediumsmallQuantity not specified 149 10 1 12
    Turkey bacon, cooked cup, piecesoz, cookedoz, raw (yield after cooking)medium slice (yield after cooking)slice, NFSthick slice (yield after cooking)thin slice (yield after cooking)Quantity not specified 84 6 1 7
    Salmon, baked or broiled cup, cooked, flakedoz, boneless, cookedoz, boneless, raw (yield after cooking)oz, with bone, cooked (yield after b…oz, with bone, raw (yield after cook…cubic inch, boneless, cookedcubic inch, with bone, cooked (yield…Quantity not specified 292 13 1 41
    Mixed salad greens, raw cup, shredded or choppedQuantity not specified 9 0 2 1
    Chicken, breast, with or without bone, broiled, skin not eaten cup, cooked, dicedoz, boneless, cooked (yield after sk…oz, boneless, cooked, skinlessoz, boneless, raw (yield after cooki…oz, boneless, raw, without skin (yie…oz, with bone, cooked (yield after b…oz, with bone, cooked, without skin …oz, with bone, raw (yield after cook…oz, with bone, raw, without skin (yi…cubic inch, boneless, cooked, skin r…medium slice (approx 2″ x 1-1/2″ x 1/4″)thick slice (approx 2″ x 1-1/2″ x 3/8″)thin slice (approx 2″ x 1-1/2″ x 1/8″)large breast (yield after cooking, b…medium breast (yield after cooking, …small breast (yield after cooking, b…Quantity not specified 183 4 0 34
    Beans, snap, green, cooked, boiled, drained, with salt cup 22 0 5 1
    Olive oil cuptablespoonQuantity not specified 119 14 0 0
    carb control yogurt

    That didn’t copy well so I will spell it out.

    Breakfast:
    2 eggs fried in Pam and 2 turkey bacon slices. 8 oz of coffee with sweet and low and 1 oz of half and half.

    Lunch: 4 oz of chicken breast without skin plus one cup of salad with 1 tablespoon of olive oil.

    Dinner: 6 oz of grilled salmon plus half cup of green beans.

    Snack: Dannon low carb yogurt

    Supplements: Country Life vitamines and minerals, one flax, 1 calcium magnesium and 1000 ml of vitamin C 3x per day.

  17. Thank you Tippy Toes for stopping by.

    But your “better” menu has less omega 6 them mine did. You obviously don’t understand what Omegas are and how their are many different polyunsaturated fats but not all polyunsaturated fats are the Omega 3s and 6s we need. Fish and Flax are good supplements for 3s but not 6s.

    And I’d strongly suggest you read that bottle of your flax supplements cause flax is only 16% Omega 6 and I’ve never seen a Flax supplement that will meet the daily needs for Omega6 even 3 times a day.

    If that is the supplements the docotr you mentioned in the Jimmy Moore interview recommneded I’d strongly suggest you ask him for a referal to a nutrtionist cause you are defiecient in Omegas and in needed for heath fats.

  18. oh and just so you know changing the veggies from brussel sprouts to green beens lowered the omega 3 for the dinner veggies by roughly 1/2

    the butter has more omegas then the olive oil too.

  19. Atkins isn’t low fibre even induction, if you use the 20g rule rather then the cup rule. In fact I think its real stupid to say it is, it only lacks fibre if you don’t eat it period. Of course it doesn’t help if you include it in your carbohydrate totals!

    However how important fibre is, is debatable.

    There is also plenty of fruit on a low carb diet in fact their mainstay, berries is probably the healthiest fruit around!

    And why do people limit their salad greens? what your going to get fat from eating lettuce?

    Whole grains, hmm why do we need whole grains? *sigh*

  20. good point Sherrie and did you know botanically there are even fruits in the acceptable veggies lists for induction

  21. I’m a little lost here. Can someone tell me which direction is Camp Carbaway?

  22. I camp all the time, camp hickory hills.

    I eat dark greens, spinich, and all the mixed varieties. I have never had a problem with getting enough fiber. I agree I dont believe that lettuse makes you fat. Atkins is only 20 grams of carbs for the first two weeks, and most of these should come from veggies. After the first two weeks you are then to up your carbs to a level where you are still losing. WHY would you do 20 carbs if you can lose just as fast at 40, 60 or 100, each person will be different. The problem is.. if you add in lowcarb treats skip the veggies and count these treats as your carb intake for the day. I am not saying I dont have a lowcarb treat I do, but I am saying my veggies come first and I lost just fine.

  23. Hi again. I sent you an email and if you want to share it here you may. Finally now we can move ahead in the weight loss game together. I hope so. I feel you do have valuable information to share which may help a lot more people than you realize.

    You also may recall on ther morning show when the nutritionist was busy tearing me a new arse she said the diet lacked whole grains and fruits and she said nothing about omegas. I really was interested in what she had to say for a brief moment until I realized she was just plain nasty.

    The bottom line is this: Some people can’t get to goal on Atkins and some people will choose the k diets. I want to help them stay safe. And I want your help if you will. It’s time to put the resentment away and think about them and I say this for all of us, myself included.

    Here is something else to consider to. This was a previous menu before my low carb days. If you compare it to the menu I gave you it makes the K menu look healthy in comparision. Really, it’s not a perfect world.

    Breakfast: Bacon, eggs, fried potatoes, toast and milk. Coffee with powdered creme and sweet and low.

    Lunch: McDonald’s quarter pound with cheese, large fry and diet coke. (gotta love the diet coke)

    Snack: Candy bar, full size.

    Dinner: Country fried steak with white flour gravy, corn on the cob, mashed potatoes and bread, milk.

    Dessert: ice cream

  24. yes compared to a fastfood high carb plan it looks healthier but if we atkinsize your unhealthy menu it looks even better even holding it to induction level carbs and foods.

    Breakfast: Bacon, eggs, sliced tomatoes decafe coffee with real cream
    Lunch: McDonald’s quarter pound with cheese hold the bun hold the ketchup side salad with full fat dressing water sorry McDonalds DC has caffiene in it

    Snack: deviled egg or an ounce of cheese

    Dinner: Steak with faux taters ( cauliflower mashed with a fat for the nonlocarber reading along), a nice green veggie

    dessert ( if you need it) sugar free gelatin with homemade sugar free whipped cream

    as you can see it is lower cal better nutrtion and still atkins legal with those 3 cups of veggies which is actually 4-6 USDA servings spaced through out the day.

    many of use didn’t agree with the nutritionist’s high carb advice.
    Oh and atkins has whole grains and fruits when you get to OWL so unless you want to make this an Akins vs Kimkins discussion lets leave the atkins and other plans out as this is a discussion of your plans to make kimkins safer by raising the cals and???
    so far we know there should be some supplements
    actually even more then that doctor told you to take.
    Fats need to be added and the correct kind. olive oil is a monosaturated oil by classification and actually you’d need 5 Tablespoos to meet the daily omega 6 needs so understanding what foods contain how much of those Omegas is also critical for fixing Kimkins.com
    If Kimmer had had some basic nutrtional guidelines and not just used the extreme info she was given after her WLS to fashion a better version of Atkins for the metabolically resistant folk we would not need to be having this discussion now.

    So why say above 800 cal? just cause 800 is the definition of a VLCD? cause having been on message boards you and I both know folk will say okay I’ll eat 801 cals as their daily total. Please be very careful what criteria you select as your guidelines for fixing kimkins.

  25. Well that is all very true. And I suppose you are correct that some will strive for 801 calories. Will push that up. Can you provide me with a list of foods high in omegas and lower in carbs?

    Also, just to let you and everyone reading know, I have no intention of pushing the Kimkins plans at camp carb away. I hate even mentioning Kimkins in there. It’s just that we know what to expect and we want to deal with it in the best way. I am telling newbies now to start with Atkins. If it quits working for them, sure, we have alternatives. But we are getting some K members who want to continue. It is my goal to provide them with safer ways to do it. And everyone knows I will push cycling for K people with Atkins. Your imput will help a lot of people, I can promise you.

    Also, I am inviting you to join the website if you would like to. If you choose to join just use the same username and I’ll find you on the waiting list and let you in.

    One thing I am hoping to avoid is members copying people’s post and displaying them elsewhere. Even if a post is spotted with unreasonable food amounts it is far better to PM the person or notify an admin than to make a public scene at other websites. I have seen it happen before. At Kimkins I always PM’d people to help to avoid drawing attention. It is hard enough to convince people to up calories and such without them seeing their posts all over the place. It becomes a trust issue.

    I also want to thank you for being a fair person. I do understand that people are concerned and angry over the whole Kimkins ordeal. Sometimes the anger takes control of the person and although I understand it, we really should focus on helping others first. My opinion anyways.

  26. How to alter kimkins to make eating it safe isn’t a cycling plan. The cycling plan is like while changing the coolant on the car you rev the engine up to the redline. For a bit it will run fine but in a minute or two it will start to suffer damage. You back off the accelerator and add more coolant allowing the engine to cool down but just as you get it almost finish you rev it again with the plug out. While the damage will be small each time cycling it will be damaged and more damage will be done each subsequent cycle till one day the damage becomes apparent. it would be far better to fix the nutrition in the kimkins plan.

    Many foods high in Omega 3s and Omega 6s are posted on LCFs in the

    building a healthy WOE topic. they are posted on about page 8 but know those lists are for 100gram servings which is about 3.5 ounces. Things like egg yolks, cold water fish, cream butter and cheese, nuts and flax can be incorporated into the eating plan. Even some of the veggies already on the list bur frowned on for being slightly higher in carbs like the brussel sprounts metioned earlier can be a good source of Omega 3s.

    Omega 6 can be obtained from vegetable oils and those same foods metioned above eggs and dairy.

    there are other sources with more foods listed one can purchase or find on the web containing the omegas in foods not mentioned in ControlledCarbs lists.

    There is a study that demonstrated we absorb Omegas better from foods because they are in the triglycerides form as opposed to the ester forms in supplements, so please encourage all followers of the kimkins plan to use foods rich in omegas as part of their eating plan rather then swallowing a handful of oil supplements.

    Omega are but one thing the kimkins.com diet needs to fix.

    The issue with kimkins weight loss is, and I’m know you have seen it but may not understand it, is yes pounds come off the body BUT physical harm is being done to the body because vital fats, vits, minerals and calories are not being eaten. Our body works in negative feedback loops so it takes time for the control systems to realize those things are missing.

    let me use you for example of just one problem eating kimkins causes from just one lacking mineral cause I know you are hypothyroid.

    eating kimkins you don’t get enough calcium. those who do the plan just from reading the sites will not be knowing they need supplementation cause nobody even mentioned needing anything but a VP till you posted your statements after the fact about a doctor giving you a list of needed supplements. Wish you would have posted that as an admin on kimkins for the members reading the board to know about to so they too could add those supplements.

    this too low calcium ( I know you are now taking the supplements so calcium shouldn’t be an issue for you) will cause the brain part that regulates blood calcium levels to call on the bodies reserves ( the bones) for calcium so it creates a chemical that will leech calcium from the bones. However this same chemical will also interfere with thyroid hormones.

    So what have you done just by losing weight eating low calcium?

    1)your bones are being weakened

    2)your thyroid hormone production is being lowered so borderline hypos are now full blown hypos and hypos who were medically regulated are now not regulated but don’t know it till their next blood work several months down the road so their entire body starts to slow down metabolism functions cause thyroid hormones are used by every cell in the body as part of their fuel burning control system and the weight loss stops.

    3)Calcium is also used to regulate blood pH levels and that low intake being corrected by bone leeching may allow the pH of a ketosis person to become too acidic and that will also effect all body chemical productions again slowing down the bodies rate of fuel burning, growth, and repair.

    all for lack of a dietary source of adequate calcium. I saw in your list of supplements large doses of calcium 3 times a day but those supplements lack the minerals the human body uses to assist in Calcium absorption too so it may not be enough to correct the issues.

    I can go on detailing every lacking vit mineral and fatty acid but I hope you are seeing the issue

    Again I’m not picking on you and your eating but since you have been open about your kimkins cycling and you have been open about your hypothyroidism I just wanted to point out the lower cal low fat kimkins eating has just impacted your thyroid health with the 2 nutrients already discussed. There are more nutrients lacking in the kimkins eating plan that impact thyroid health too.

    there are studies by Broda Barnes who was a pioneer in thyroid health back in the 30s detailing how low cal diets have a negative impact on thyroid function. And also studies on high protein eating and the negative effects it has on thyroid function when fats and carbs are limited. There has also been some follow up studies on the amounts of carbohydrates and calories eaten while losing weight. NonstickPam has lots of useful information in her Thyroid numbers topic on LCFs too every one eating a low fat low carb low cal plan should read cause once we damage our thyroids they do not heal and it is a life time of blood tests and swallowing pills we have to look forward too.

  27. Thank you for your response. But I have to clarify just a bit. I did post what supplements I take at Kimkins site. Several times, in fact. I know it is also there under the health and wellness threads.

    And I don’t take calcium 3x a day. That was vitamin C, 1000ml 3x a day. I take calcium once per day.

    I appreciate your help more than you know. It is not my intent to push the Kimkins diet at Camp carb away. But we know folks will bring it with them and anything we can do to help them stay safe is valuable.

    I did find the same info as you about damaging thyroids. It is true. Low carbs, high protien and low calories are all contributing factors. But least not forget that sometimes we have to make a trade off for better health. I suspect I was hypo for years now, looking back. But was I better off at 263 lbs from a health standpoint? No. Could I get the weight off any other way? Well, no. So yes, prolonged dieting I am sure did have it’s share of damging my thyroid further. But in exchange I lost the weight, lowered my blood pressure and got off the meds and same for cholesterol. But in exchange I have to take thyroid meds. And now I feel better than I have ever felt. So is it good or bad in the long run? My Doctor says good.

  28. actually if one lowers the protein and ups the fat so the cals are higher the lower carb diet doesn’t have adverse effects on the thyroid. it is a combination of all of them together, low fat high protein very low carb and low cal like in the Kimkins.com eating plans that thyroids are damaged.

  29. With all due respect, this is from Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution, page 188, concerning thyroid and diets.

    “Prolonged dieting (of any type) will sometimes cause reduction of thyroid functioning.”.

  30. I don’t see Dr Atkins statement at all countering mine. He says sometimes, not every time in every case.
    He could easily also say changing to the healthy low carb veggies will sometimes cause reduction in thyroid function casue eating new levles of goitrogens will lower the amounbts avialible and many induction legal veggies are goitrogens but he didn’t he made a general statement about thyroid function in his section for those whose weightloss stalls out as mine did several times and I read yours did too.
    Following his advice I had my free T4 and free T3 levels checked when I didn’t lose any pounds nor inches for over 4 weeks and several of my stalls were the result of thyroid levles being off. Correcting my med dose allowed me to resume my weight loss safely on Atkins after the levels returned to normal.

    Did you have your free T3 and free T4 checked when you had your long stall?

  31. No, thyroid troubles were the farthest thing from my mind. I had no idea. I still have my eye lashes and eye brows, never suffered from depression, ect. In fact, I had lost so much weight I felt terrific. The only problem that ever surfaced was later and it was being freezing cold all the time. Pam at LCF directed me to get a thyroid check. I went to Carol Robert’s office (she is a contributor in Mary Sholmans’ book) and am being treated by her associate. They are expensive BUT they test for all and sure enough, mine was not good.

    The result has been I am no longer cold and best, I find I can process carbs much better than prior. In fact, since I am at goal now I have even splurged for pizza (ate a lot of it) and only had a couple pound water weight gain which is now gone. If I had done that before I would have gained at least 5 lbs or more and taking it back off would have been very difficult. So I am actually THRILLED to be on the meds for it and THRILLED with the results.

    Still I am learning that I just cannot process a lot of fats. But oddly, I seem to have no problem with certain fats. Olive oil, fatty meats and skins settle just fine. Cheese I have to be careful with as with full fat salad dressing and mayo. Butter seems to be fine in limits, of course. Bacon, sausage, ham and most processed foods I have a big problem with. But turkey products are fine.

    Thanks for sharing with me.

  32. thank you for sharing I would like to ask about the timing of your discovery that you are hypo. Was it before or after you stated Atkins quit working?
    I know when I had a long stall I followed Dr Atkins advice and talked with my doc about it. my only symptoms were the cold and calf muscle cramps. We don’t get every symptom for every hypo person as the symptoms are effected by the supply of other chemicals the the thyroid hormones help regulate and produce. Such as if you have a lower range normal for the antidepression chemicals production in your body and your thyroid production slows then you will have symptoms before somebody who is on the high end of the normal range of antideression chemical producers in their body when their thyroid slows.

  33. I was not diagnosed until recently–about a year and a half later, past that stall. I did Atkins fat fast for a few days a month but didn’t lose a whole lot since it is so hard. I lost the rest of the weight following the diet we shall not name and cycled it with Atkins to maintain by. In fact, I am on my second bottle of Armo now. So I have only been diagnosed a few months.

    I agree, the whole thyroid thing is tricky to diagnos. My original family Doc checked my throat/thyroid only and said it looked fine. No bloodwork. That is why I decided to see a specialist in the field.

    Oh, and I also wanted to tell you I am able to process fruit better now too–and lose weight. Adding blueberries into a shake as she suggested. I am currently at 147.5 and am shooting for 145. Best, I am learning new ways to lose without the diet we shall not name. I still cannot lose on Atkins by the book but I am somewhere in the middle. It’s all good.

  34. your thyroid troubels wer diagnoised after you stopped losing on Atkins? I can understand why if your thyrorid hormones were too low you didn’t lose no matter what plan you ate. Many hypo folk have been drivien to deserate measures to shed weight cause they didn’t know fixing the thyroid hormone levels in their body would fix their metabolsim and weight loss would follow. I will never know how much of my rapid weight loss was getting my throid hormones and the rest of my body back to normal and how myuch was Atkins but my doc at every follow up titrating my orginal dose would upon seeing me weigh chage say we’ve got your thyroid meds too high and every call about the blood work result would be the levels look good keep taking your meds. When i stalled out and had tested the carbs lowering part Dr Atkins recommended in chapter 15 of DANDR and had done the tape measure and scale no loss for 4+ weeks and had not decreased my workouts. I’d wonder about the thyroid levels and for several sure enough my levels were too low and adjusting the meds jump started my weight loss again.
    Too bad your doc didn’t do a simple blood test when you discussed your stalled out weight loss. Could have saved you alot of problems.

    okay now back to Kimkins fixing

    have you looked at Controlled carbs wonderful posts in the LCF building topic I linked to earlier?

    As you can see there are lots of high quality inexpensive foods people can eat as part of their weight loss to get all the EFAs they need when the plan they select allows healthy amounts of healthy fats to be consumed unlike the one Kimmer promoted

  35. I have not but will go look right now.

    Funny how two people on such opposite corners can actually meet at the fence and shake hands. I didn’t think I was going to like you much but you have turned out to be very nice after all. I appreciate your help more than you know.

  36. This?
    Some food source omega-3 and omega-6:

    WHOLE FOOD SOURCES (per 100g)

    Dairy

    Cheddar cheese, natural
    0.5g LA (n-6)
    0.4g ALA (n-3)

    Cream cheese, regular
    0.8g LA (n-6)
    0.5g ALA (n-3)

    Gruyere cheese, regular
    1.3g LA (n-6)
    0.4g ALA (n-3)

    American cheese, regular
    0.6g LA (n-6)
    0.3g ALA (n-3)

    Heavy Cream, conventional, from grain-fed cows*
    0.9g LA (n-6)
    0.6g ALA (n-3)

    Light Cream, conventional, from grain-fed cows*
    0.5g LA (n-6)
    0.3g ALA (n-3)

    Sour Cream, conventional*
    0.4g LA (n-6)
    0.3g ALA (n-3)

    Milk, whole, conventional*
    0.1g LA (n-6)
    0.1g ALA (n-3)

    Yogurt, plain, whole milk, conventional*
    0.1g LA (n-6)
    0.1g ALA (n-3)

    Egg Yolks, conventional (100g = approximately 4 yolks)
    2.6g LA (n-6)
    0.05g ALA (n-3)

    Egg Yolks, pastured or flaxseed included in diet
    4.2g LA (n-6)
    2.1g ALA (n-3)

    Butter, conventional
    2.73g LA (n-6)
    0.32g ALA (n-3)

    Butter, grass-fed organic
    1.8g LA (n-6)
    1.2g ALA (n-3)

    Meats & Game

    Elk
    0.343g (n-6)
    0.056g (n-3)

    Bison
    0.156g (n-6)
    0.026g (n-3)

    Beef, grass-fed
    0.139g (n-6)
    0.052g (n-3)

    Beef, grain-fed, conventional
    0.275g (n-6)
    0.016g (n-3)

    Venison, roast, cooked, braised (approximate levels)
    0.13g (n-6)
    0.06g (n-3)

    * – data not available for pastured/grass-fed product/food

    Sources:

    Medeiro, L.C. 2002. Nutritional content of game meat. B-920R. College of Agriculture, University of Wyoming

    USDA Nutrient Database

    Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2006;15(1):21-9; Effect of feeding systems on omega-3 fatty acids, conjugated linoleic acid and trans fatty acids in Australian beef cuts: potential impact on human health

    Lipids. 2005 Feb;40(2):191-202; A study on the causes for the elevated n-3 fatty acids in cows’ milk of alpine origin

    Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2003;12 Suppl:S38; Feeding regimes affect fatty acid composition in Australian beef cattle

    J Nutr Health Aging. 2005 Jul-Aug;9(4):232-42; Where to find omega-3 fatty acids and how feeding animals with diet enriched in omega-3 fatty acids to increase nutritional value of derived products for human: what is actually useful?

    Poult Sci. 2000 Jul;79(7):971-4; Enriched eggs as a source of N-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids for humans

    Omega-3 Oils – A Practical Guide, Donald Rudin, MD, Clara Felix
    Last edited by controlledcarb : 08-21-2007 at 04:58 PM.
    controlledcarb is offline Reply With Quote
    Old 08-21-2007, 05:01 PM #237 (permalink)
    controlledcarb
    Senior LCF Member

    controlledcarb’s Avatar

    Join Date: Jun 2007
    Location: MIssouri, USA
    Posts: 559
    Gallery: controlledcarb
    Stats: 275/185/185
    WOE: Controlled-Carb (lost with Atkins)
    Start Date: September 2001

    Animal Fats (per 100g)

    Beef Tallow (grain-fed beef source)
    4g LA (n-6)
    0.7g ALA (n-3)

    Chicken Fat
    17g LA (n-6)
    1.1g ALA (n-3)

    Lard
    10g LA (n-6)
    1.4g ALA (n-3)

    Mutton Fat
    5g LA (n-6)
    2.9g ALA (n-3)

  37. Thank you. My battle has always been with the plan. but at times it seems the only way to fix the plan is to stop those promoting it too.

    Yes that is 2 of the posts from Lowcarbfriends.com
    with information about omegas
    in the top of the first is also a list of places to get omega6s I think it lists fishes and oils that you didn’t copy. FYI 100 grams is a little over 3.5 ounces so you’d need 3.5 ounces to get those numbers but as you can see people can use smaller portions of more of those foods and get what they need but fats have to be allowed in the diet to get it cause stripping the fat from the chicken breast by removing the skin removes most of the healthy fats in the chicken breast. Kimmer didn’t do folk any help making her Kimkins plan without the needed EFAs which are easy to get in healthy foods with some fat content.

    We also need fats period in our diet for other body functions and those too were discussed in that topic.

    One thing folk low carbing don’t realize is when we remove the high carb cals and grams from the USDA eating the % of fats and proteins in the diet on the fitday pages will jump up to over 50%
    here follow along

    USDA is 60% carbs 30% fats and 10% proteins
    which works out to 1200 cals/300 grams of carbs
    600cals/65 grams of fat and 200 cals or 50 grams of protein for a 2000 cal diet ( I picked 2000 cause the math is easier they use 2250 cals)
    remove the carbs and suddenly the fats for the exact same amount fats are now 75% fat
    that fat % scares many nonAtkins low carbers but if they examine the actual amount they are eating in cals and grams they will see it is a low amount only 600 cals

    if using the basic kimkins plan from Becky’s winning weight example on her blog
    Thus, on the high side, Gary’s ideal recommendation has 808 calories:
    40 g fat x 9 = 360 calories
    100 g protein x 4 = 400 calories
    12 g carb x 4 = 48 calories
    TOTAL: 808 calories
    we add an additional 25 grams of fat to match the USDA fat content of 65 grams that only adds 225 cals to that 808 cal plan for a total of just 1033, but it now makes the fats 56% of the total cals and kimkinettes freakout that is too much fat. it isn’t but the % can be deceptive so please make use anyone on your site low fatting isn’t using the %s as their guide cause it can be dangerous and give a false sense of I got fat as Fluffybear2 found out later in that topic when she posted about her fitday % based on 1T of fat added to herKimkins plan and it was explained to her. She finally understood and is now shedding weight eating Atkins.

  38. sorry I need to take a break cause I’m traveling with my mother for the next 10 days.
    anybody needing more info about how to fix theirkimkins plan can get it for free in the building a healthy WOE topic on LCFs http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/kimkins/511374-building-healthy-woe-if-possible-based-kimkins.html

    Hope everybody has a safe and healthy Christmas

  39. Great post, thanks! Say no to Kimkins!!

    Stop the fraud! If you were a member of Kimkins, join the Kimkins diet lawsuit! Here is how to join the Kimkins lawsuit. It’s easy!

  40. I’m back. any more questions tippy?
    it is good to know there will be no Kimkins.com nor Kimmer on your new site.

  41. Wow, I learned so much from this exchange..thanks. I also feel TT learned a lot about bad dieting from KK. I think she is using your info and probably others to “learn” as she goes along which tells me she shouldn’t be giving out diet advice either. Sorry TT. Just my opinion. I hope the people on Camp Carb Away learn to diet in a healthy way and find the support they are searching for. Great posts.

  42. thanks for the thanks.

    nobimbo has posted a whole list of the effects of low cal dieting on thyroid function on LCF shttp://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/kimkins/532723-effects-thyroid-rmr-resulting-very-low-calorie-diets-such-kimkins.html#post9680735. here is the info

    Effects of a very low calorie diet on weight, thyroid hormones and mood.

    Wadden TA, Mason G, Foster GD, Stunkard AJ, Prange AJ.

    University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, Department of Psychiatry, Philadelphia 19104-3246.

    Changes in weight, thyroid hormones and mood were examined in 15 obese (113 kg) women over an 18-week period. After 4 weeks of a 1200 kcal/day diet, patients were randomly assigned to one of two dietary conditions: very low calorie diet (VLCD) (n = 8) or balanced deficit diet (BDD) (n = 7). VLCD patients consumed 400 kcal/day for 8 weeks and then gradually returned to a 1200 kcal/day diet. BDD patients consumed 1200 kcal/day for the entire 18 weeks. Differences in weight losses between the conditions were statistically significant only during the consumption of the VLCD. Serum T3 decreased by as much as 66 percent in VLCD patients during consumption of the 400 kcal/day diet, whereas rT3 increased by as much as 27 percent. T3 increased when patients were realimented with a 1000 kcal/day balanced diet but remained a significant 22 percent below baseline at the end of the study. BDD patients also showed marked reductions in T3, as great as 40 percent, so that the differences between the two conditions were not statistically significant. Multiple regression analyses, collapsing across conditions (n = 15), indicated that weight loss at week 12 and baseline T3 accounted for 63 percent of the variance in the change in T3 at week 12. Patients in both conditions showed improvements in mood. Changes in depression were not associated with changes in serum T3.

    Effects of a very low calorie diet on weight, thyr…[Int J Obes. 1990] – PubMed Result

    Short and long term effects of a very low calorie diet on resting metabolic rate and body composition.Vansant G, Van Gaal L, Van Acker K, De Leeuw I.
    Department of Endocrinology, Metabolism and Clinical Nutrition, University of Antwerp, Belgium.

    Short and long term effects of a protein sparing modified fast (PSMF) diet on resting metabolic rate (RMR) and body composition were investigated. During a period of 6 months on diet, RMR decreased significantly, both in absolute value and after correction for fat-free mass (FFM). Short term evaluation with this type of diet showed no decrease in RMR. The results from this study indicate that the fall in RMR associated with a PSMF diet (weight loss) is not due to an acute adaptation to the lower energy intake. Changes in FFM are important in the change in RMR, but other factors have to be involved.

    Short and long term effects of a very low calorie …[Int J Obes. 1989] – PubMed Result

    Sustained depression of the resting metabolic rate after massive weight loss
    To assess potential long-term effects of weight loss on resting metabolic rate (RMR), the RMRs of seven obese women were measured by indirect calorimetry before weight loss, during a protein-sparing modified fast, and for 2 mo while at a stable reduced weight. Body composition was also determined at each interval. RMR significantly decreased 22% (p less than 0.01) with initiation of the modified fast. RMR values during the modified fast and during the maintenance diet at stable reduced weight were not different and all were significantly lower than the prediet RMR. Loss of lean tissue could not account for the decrease because changes in RMR per fat-free mass paralleled the total RMR reduction. A sustained decrement in RMR accompanied weight loss and persisted for greater than or equal to 8 wk despite increased caloric consumption and body weight stabilization.

    Sustained depression of the resting metabolic rate after massive weight loss — Elliot et al. 49 (1): 93 — American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

    Effect of a high-protein, very-low-calorie diet on resting metabolism, thyroid hormones, and energy expenditure of obese middle-aged women
    A 4-6 mo study was conducted to examine effects of a very-low-calorie, high-protein diet and realimentation on energy expenditure, resting metabolic rate (RMR), and serum thyroid hormones of obese women aged 30- 54 yr. Fifteen healthy women, greater than or equal to 126% ideal body weight, were placed on the diet (420 kcal/day) and lost an average of 1.1 kg/wk until a predetermined goal weight was attained. RMR, triiodothyronine (T3), and reverse T3 decreased significantly (p less than 0.05). Thyroxine remained unchanged. Upon gradual realimentation onto solid foods, all metabolic parameters increased significantly within 5 wk toward pre-diet baseline values, but RMR (kcal/h) and T3 values remained significantly below pre-study values. Estimates of mean energy expenditure, utilizing a technique based on energy intake and body composition changes, averaged 1719 kcal/day during the diet period.

    Effect of a high-protein, very-low-calorie diet on resting metabolism, thyroid hormones, and energy expenditure of obese middle-aged women — Barrows and Snook 45 (2): 391 — American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

  43. […] https://2big4mysize.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/hey-tippytoes-care-to-explain-your-statements/about the nutrition of the diet […]

  44. […] the sad news of continued support of low calorie starvation eating at Kimkins. We already know how nutritionally bankrupt the diet is. But is it a diet or an eating disorder? I thought you might like to revisit what Heidi feels about […]

  45. […] so bad about Kimkins? Kimkins’ is not just a fraud, it is dangerous. The fraud, the nutritionally bankrupt diet, the lies, the eating disordered thinking, sending people to “Banned Camp” just for […]

  46. I wanted to add a link to another bloggers post about the effects of fats and other nutrients in the meal
    http://atkinslowcarboriginal1970diet.blogspot.com/2008/01/i-thought-my-salad-was-healthy.html
    he has a link to a study on how low fat salad dressing leave the vits and minerals of the salads as undigestible.


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